The concerns about woke in modern TV and movies is absolutely correct. The success of some of those movies or TV shows isn't the issue. It does not change the fact that they are still woke. I don't think you understand what woke means in this context. Other media you didn't mention; The Acolyte, ST:Academy and Hulk, Supergirl, illustrate the failures even better. But each of them have different explanations of how woke may have contributed to, but are not the core reason why they failed. Some of them just were not good, but still woke in many ways.
First we have to understand what we mean by woke in the industry. In their own words they want to add more POC and identities into casting and push out white, straight and male. This is from their own words. Let's be clear, the criticisms isn't that a movie or show was race or gender swapped, it is about why and how. It is often activism disguised as TV. It is a force narrative pushed on its audience.
Virtual signaling messaging; inclusive, diverse - they should be liked just because they are diverse. They deserve it because they are 'x'. If it is not diverse, it must be bad. If someone does not like it or is a critic, it must be because they don't like woman or diverse characters.
Another example is the fact that many older movies had very powerful and liked woman; Alien, Terminator, Star Trek, BSG, etc. Not without some early controversy, they still became classics and well loved. Yet today, it is often sold as "now we finally have strong women in our movies" as if the mere fact that a woman was cast, it must be accepted as good. Or a character was swapped, so now it must be accepted as good.
When the new BSG came out in the 2000s Starbuck was recast, but no one saw it as woke, as it was not really a thing, nor would they see it that way today. We may complain or have a preference, but it was not woke. BSG turned out great.
In Snow White, it wasn't Rachel herself being cast, it was her own words that had people calling it woke. It was the in your face understanding of how bad it looked from the start. It was also ignoring the premise of the 1930s version. The queen was jealous of Snow Whites beauty. The woke part was ignoring this part in casting. Objective beauty is frowed upon in woke circles. She is beautiful, but they made her look worse.
If you understand woke in this framework, it is clear why these shows are bad and how they were affected.
Unearned or fake struggles based on identity.
Forced woke narratives. Their identity is more important than who they actually are.
Men and woman are the same or should be.
Forced diversity and inclusion; Academy added rules for best picture based on race/demographics not merit or performance.
I have no doubt The Odyssey will be successful, but this does not dismiss the claims of woke as they are very evident.
The issue isn't Elliot Page playing a part. It is the narrative that one must accept her as good just because of identity. it is the criticism of her own words. No criticism allowed?
Woke is not made up, it is misunderstood. It is a weapon. It isn't used in everything, but where it is used, it is toxic.
Well as I said, woke is meaningless. So no, I don’t understand. Because it has no meaning. The shows you mentioned weren’t good either. So again, it’s not the “wokeness”. It’s that they were bad.
But you’ve said all you need to say by calling Elliot Page “her”. You’re one of the bad ones.
I knew that would trigger you and validated my point. You're forcing people into your world view. Not a critique or a suggestion but by force and false virtue. both are accurate in context. Her- biology, he - identity.
It’s not that hard to call someone what they’d like to be called. For example, I can call you “he” or I can call you “asshole” and both can be true. You really triggered me - and proved my point about the kind of people I’m talking about. You’re powerless. A dying breed. And no one takes you seriously.
One can ignore reality as you have chosen to do but reality still remains. The power is in truth, not what you want it to be. Maybe you'll see that one day.
Yeah I’m excited for the odyssey and the preemptive casting criticism is silly to me. But you’re not honestly framing some of this stuff. Rachel Zegler brought the anti-woke criticism on herself with her outlandish and antagonistic political statements in promotion of the movie. Snow White is a bad ass bitch who don’t need no man; bringing up Israel and Trump. Fine. Whatever. Say what you want but don’t go out of your way to thumb your nose at the normie middle Americans who have to decide whether or not to spend money on your crappy movie and then act like the audience is the one who’s out of line.
My argument is that “woke” has nothing to do with a movie’s success or failure. Because it doesn’t. Bad movies will fail. Good movies will win. And no “anti-woke” people are changing that at all.
Understand that Jeff doesn't even understand or want to understand the context of woke. The bad movies he refers to are bad, but are also woke to different degrees. The argument isn't that all movies or TV with woke will fail, it's that woke is a toxic view of the world and should fail.
Well… I would have to disagree somewhat. “Woke” may be an overused term these days but at the same time people are tired. Tired of the needless layers being added to cinema. People just want to go see a film and be entertained. They don’t want everything to always be “political” in some way. And there is no arguing that choices were made here that are indeed “political”.
I happen to know many who have been turned off by this film. And not just because of the casting, but the use of “non-period” language. The contemporary use of “Dad” or “Let’s go”. Sounds minor, but as someone from the film industry told me, when you make an epic film and you miss the mark on simple script choices - that’s bad. No matter how grand the film.
I too, think the casting here is suspect. “Statements” through casting choices to “tick boxes” will always be off-putting.
You failed to point out the other fact - there are no Greek or Mediterranean actors in the film despite this being a story foundational to their culture.
Those on one side of the spectrum will always do their “darnedest” to distract, make excuses or even point fingers. Bottom line is if you’re telling a pre-existing story in film, don’t change characters/narratives to tick boxes. Inevitably people won’t like it - whether they are “woke” or not. Hollywood needs to tell new stories and cast actors and actresses in roles that they can make their own.
The Little Mermaid was the perfect example. So many kids identified with the red-haired Ariel they had always known. Think of the little girls with red hair who have very few fellow redhead stars to look up to. Instead of swapping in Halle Bailey for Ariel, why didn’t they create something new with another mermaid and tell her own story. That would have been the best path to take. Not only for the Little Mermaid but for many other recent films.
People want something new and fresh. And that opens the door for any actor or actress to make their roles their own without any expectation of who should be playing the part.
The real issue many took with The Little Mermaid is that you needed a POC to be able to identify with the character. As if the color of ones skin is what should be in the way of identifying with a character in a fantasy. The idea should be that that does not matter.
Excellent article! I've not seen the film yet but now I look forward to it.
The concerns about woke in modern TV and movies is absolutely correct. The success of some of those movies or TV shows isn't the issue. It does not change the fact that they are still woke. I don't think you understand what woke means in this context. Other media you didn't mention; The Acolyte, ST:Academy and Hulk, Supergirl, illustrate the failures even better. But each of them have different explanations of how woke may have contributed to, but are not the core reason why they failed. Some of them just were not good, but still woke in many ways.
First we have to understand what we mean by woke in the industry. In their own words they want to add more POC and identities into casting and push out white, straight and male. This is from their own words. Let's be clear, the criticisms isn't that a movie or show was race or gender swapped, it is about why and how. It is often activism disguised as TV. It is a force narrative pushed on its audience.
Virtual signaling messaging; inclusive, diverse - they should be liked just because they are diverse. They deserve it because they are 'x'. If it is not diverse, it must be bad. If someone does not like it or is a critic, it must be because they don't like woman or diverse characters.
Another example is the fact that many older movies had very powerful and liked woman; Alien, Terminator, Star Trek, BSG, etc. Not without some early controversy, they still became classics and well loved. Yet today, it is often sold as "now we finally have strong women in our movies" as if the mere fact that a woman was cast, it must be accepted as good. Or a character was swapped, so now it must be accepted as good.
When the new BSG came out in the 2000s Starbuck was recast, but no one saw it as woke, as it was not really a thing, nor would they see it that way today. We may complain or have a preference, but it was not woke. BSG turned out great.
In Snow White, it wasn't Rachel herself being cast, it was her own words that had people calling it woke. It was the in your face understanding of how bad it looked from the start. It was also ignoring the premise of the 1930s version. The queen was jealous of Snow Whites beauty. The woke part was ignoring this part in casting. Objective beauty is frowed upon in woke circles. She is beautiful, but they made her look worse.
If you understand woke in this framework, it is clear why these shows are bad and how they were affected.
Unearned or fake struggles based on identity.
Forced woke narratives. Their identity is more important than who they actually are.
Men and woman are the same or should be.
Forced diversity and inclusion; Academy added rules for best picture based on race/demographics not merit or performance.
I have no doubt The Odyssey will be successful, but this does not dismiss the claims of woke as they are very evident.
The issue isn't Elliot Page playing a part. It is the narrative that one must accept her as good just because of identity. it is the criticism of her own words. No criticism allowed?
Woke is not made up, it is misunderstood. It is a weapon. It isn't used in everything, but where it is used, it is toxic.
Well as I said, woke is meaningless. So no, I don’t understand. Because it has no meaning. The shows you mentioned weren’t good either. So again, it’s not the “wokeness”. It’s that they were bad.
But you’ve said all you need to say by calling Elliot Page “her”. You’re one of the bad ones.
I knew that would trigger you and validated my point. You're forcing people into your world view. Not a critique or a suggestion but by force and false virtue. both are accurate in context. Her- biology, he - identity.
It’s not that hard to call someone what they’d like to be called. For example, I can call you “he” or I can call you “asshole” and both can be true. You really triggered me - and proved my point about the kind of people I’m talking about. You’re powerless. A dying breed. And no one takes you seriously.
One can ignore reality as you have chosen to do but reality still remains. The power is in truth, not what you want it to be. Maybe you'll see that one day.
This article superbly shows that you don’t know what woke is, nice work.
He doesn't want to understand it. He wants to preserve his boxed in world view with no critique.
Yeah I’m excited for the odyssey and the preemptive casting criticism is silly to me. But you’re not honestly framing some of this stuff. Rachel Zegler brought the anti-woke criticism on herself with her outlandish and antagonistic political statements in promotion of the movie. Snow White is a bad ass bitch who don’t need no man; bringing up Israel and Trump. Fine. Whatever. Say what you want but don’t go out of your way to thumb your nose at the normie middle Americans who have to decide whether or not to spend money on your crappy movie and then act like the audience is the one who’s out of line.
My argument is that “woke” has nothing to do with a movie’s success or failure. Because it doesn’t. Bad movies will fail. Good movies will win. And no “anti-woke” people are changing that at all.
Understand that Jeff doesn't even understand or want to understand the context of woke. The bad movies he refers to are bad, but are also woke to different degrees. The argument isn't that all movies or TV with woke will fail, it's that woke is a toxic view of the world and should fail.
Well… I would have to disagree somewhat. “Woke” may be an overused term these days but at the same time people are tired. Tired of the needless layers being added to cinema. People just want to go see a film and be entertained. They don’t want everything to always be “political” in some way. And there is no arguing that choices were made here that are indeed “political”.
I happen to know many who have been turned off by this film. And not just because of the casting, but the use of “non-period” language. The contemporary use of “Dad” or “Let’s go”. Sounds minor, but as someone from the film industry told me, when you make an epic film and you miss the mark on simple script choices - that’s bad. No matter how grand the film.
I too, think the casting here is suspect. “Statements” through casting choices to “tick boxes” will always be off-putting.
You failed to point out the other fact - there are no Greek or Mediterranean actors in the film despite this being a story foundational to their culture.
Those on one side of the spectrum will always do their “darnedest” to distract, make excuses or even point fingers. Bottom line is if you’re telling a pre-existing story in film, don’t change characters/narratives to tick boxes. Inevitably people won’t like it - whether they are “woke” or not. Hollywood needs to tell new stories and cast actors and actresses in roles that they can make their own.
The Little Mermaid was the perfect example. So many kids identified with the red-haired Ariel they had always known. Think of the little girls with red hair who have very few fellow redhead stars to look up to. Instead of swapping in Halle Bailey for Ariel, why didn’t they create something new with another mermaid and tell her own story. That would have been the best path to take. Not only for the Little Mermaid but for many other recent films.
People want something new and fresh. And that opens the door for any actor or actress to make their roles their own without any expectation of who should be playing the part.
The real issue many took with The Little Mermaid is that you needed a POC to be able to identify with the character. As if the color of ones skin is what should be in the way of identifying with a character in a fantasy. The idea should be that that does not matter.
No single film can kill an idiotic dog whistle.